Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 08:15 AM

Poll Question

How many of you already have a working web infrastructure where you could immediately put a test program online under your own domain — directly from your development machine or production system?

Answer options:

✅ Yes — I can put a domain + test program online right now.

⚠️ Partially — I have a domain, but deployment/tunnel/SSL is not stable yet.

⏳ No — I don’t have the required infrastructure (domain, SSL, server, tunnel, etc.).

❓ Not sure how to set this up.

🚫 I currently have no way or no interest in running web infrastructure.

-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x

The Missing Horse: Why Harbour Developers Don’t Reach the Web (Yet)

A realistic view on why Harbour developers still struggle with web migration.

I keep seeing new initiatives trying to help Harbour developers “finally move to the web.”
New servers, new frameworks, new examples — all great stuff.
But here’s the problem:
We’re not putting the saddle on the horse backwards.
There simply is no horse yet.
Most Harbour developers don’t struggle with HTML, CSS, or JavaScript.
They struggle with the infrastructure that any web app needs:

Code: Select all Collapse

domains
SSL certificates
ports
firewalls
servers that must run 24/7
deployments and backups

For people who have spent decades writing solid desktop DBF apps, this isn’t “just another step.”
It’s discovering that the world outside the LAN is a jungle.
So before we talk about fancy frameworks or new toolkits,
we first need to give Harbour developers an actual horse to ride —
meaning: a simple, safe, standardized web infrastructure they can actually use.
Do that, and the web migration will suddenly look easy.
Until then… we’re all just standing around in the stable with a saddle in our hand.

Web Migration Isn’t a Framework Problem. It’s an Infrastructure Problem.
The Real Web Problem: No Infrastructure, No Chance.

Carles

Posts: 1283

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 02:34 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 10:15 AM

Otto,

The developers of Harbor, already have a horse: HIX

C.

Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

UT Page -> https://carles9000.github.io/
Forum UT -> https://discord.gg/bq8a9yGMWh
HIX -> https://github.com/carles9000/hix

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 10:38 AM

Carles,

thank you — HIX is certainly a valuable piece of the puzzle, and I appreciate the work behind it.

But my point is a different one:

Most Harbour developers are not missing a framework — they are missing a working infrastructure they can actually deploy on.
Without a domain, SSL, a tunnel, firewall rules, a 24/7 server and a simple deployment workflow, even the best framework cannot run.

That’s the “horse” I mean.

Once a developer has a safe, standardized web setup, then HIX, mod_harbour, PHP or any other approach becomes useful.
But in our community, only a very small percentage can put even a simple test program online under their own domain.
That’s why I started the poll.

If we want more developers to adopt web technologies, the entry barrier on the infrastructure side must be lowered first.

There’s another important point:

Many developers simply cannot open ports or expose services from their development machines or from customer networks.
Company policies, ISP restrictions, NAT setups, shared networks — all of these make it impossible to run a web server directly.

Verification Step (optional, but very helpful)

To better understand the poll results, here is a simple and neutral test:

I am providing a tiny HTML/JavaScript file (helloweb.html).

If someone answered “Yes — I can put a domain + test program online right now”,
then please upload this file to your own infrastructure and post the public URL.

It requires no backend — it’s just plain HTML.
If the page is reachable under your domain, the infrastructure is real.

My personal guess: fewer than 10 people here actually have such a setup today.

And this is exactly the gap we need to solve before any framework — including HIX — can make a real difference.

Let’s wait and see what the community reports.

Regards,
Otto

Code: Select all Collapse

<!doctype html>
<html lang="en">
<head>
<meta charset="utf-8">
<title>Hello Web Test</title>
<style>
  body { font-family: Arial; padding: 40px; background: #f4f4f4; }
  .box { background: white; padding: 20px; border-radius: 8px; border: 1px solid #ccc; }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<div class="box">
  <h1>Hello Web</h1>
  <p>If you can see this page from your own domain, your web infrastructure works.</p>
  <script>
    console.log("Hello Web – JavaScript is running.");
  </script>
</div>
</body>
</html>

Here my test link:
https://clipper2web.com/test

If anyone notices security issues or gaps on my server,
I would be grateful for any feedback.

Carles

Posts: 1283

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 02:34 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 11:48 AM

Otto,

HIX is not a framework, it's a Harbour server.

https://test.hixbase.net/hello.html

Your server:

HIX server

4 times faster and hassle-free. Only Harbour! We don't need other languages and the most important, only need HIX & "start"

I think it's a good horse. Is it easy enough to start ? :D

C.

Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

UT Page -> https://carles9000.github.io/
Forum UT -> https://discord.gg/bq8a9yGMWh
HIX -> https://github.com/carles9000/hix

Antonio Linares

Posts: 44158

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 05:47 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 12:47 PM

Dear friends,

Whats the simplest way to set online a HIX webapp ?

Should we run it from "home" ? Do we need to hire a dedicated server ?

regards, saludos

Antonio Linares
www.fivetechsoft.com

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 02:29 PM

Antonio,

your question actually points to the real challenge. Installing HIX on a company server is usually not possible for most developers: corporate admins will not allow an unknown binary or service the source code is not public security policies forbid opening ports

no one will approve a daemon running 24/7 that they cannot audit So even if HIX is technically good, the practical problem remains: Most Harbour developers simply have no place where they are allowed to install it. The only realistic setup today is:

Use Cloudflare Tunnel (cloudflared) It’s the only method that: does not require opening ports works behind NAT, hotel networks, home ISPs is accepted in corporate environments provides SSL automatically lets you expose any local service securely does not require root/admin on public hosting

But even if someone self-hosts HIX, they still face a second problem: How does HIX connect to the real DBF data on the LAN? Companies will not open a firewall so a cloud server can talk to their internal DBF files. So again the developer ends up needing Cloudflare Tunnel, or another reverse-secure channel.

In other words: You can host HIX anywhere — but the moment you need real data, you must somehow reach the DBF files behind the firewall. And that is exactly what cloudflared solves.

So the problem is not HIX. The problem is infrastructure, permissions, and security policies — the same points I tried to illustrate in my post.

Regards, Otto

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 05:17 PM

Hello friends,
The results are clear:
Our community does not lack frameworks — we lack infrastructure.

Once a basic, reliable web infrastructure is in place (domain, SSL, routing, deployment, 24/7 service, secure tunnels),
every framework becomes easy to use —
whether it is HIX, mod_harbour, PHP, Node, or anything else.

This small benchmark demonstrates that even a simple hello.html is enough to expose the real challenge:
not coding, but hosting.

Up to now, only Charly and I have been able to run the test successfully.
No additional participants have posted a working test URL yet.
This reinforces the conclusion that infrastructure — not frameworks — is the real missing piece.

That’s why this topic is important.
With every new member of the community, we can revive this thread and help them verify their setup.

When the horse exists, choosing the saddle becomes trivial.

Best regards,
Otto

Antonio Linares

Posts: 44158

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 05:47 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2025 09:59 PM

Dear Otto,

I don't agree with your conclusions

best regards

regards, saludos

Antonio Linares
www.fivetechsoft.com

Antonio Linares

Posts: 44158

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 05:47 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 07:40 AM

CloudFlare + Zero Trust + Tunnels 🐴❤️

Enjoying the horse ride 🏇🏇🏇

regards, saludos

Antonio Linares
www.fivetechsoft.com

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 08:31 AM

Dear Antonio, I am really happy to see Cloudflare + Zero Trust + Tunnels mentioned here – that is exactly the “horse” I was trying to talk about. If we can make this setup easy and safe for average Harbour developers, I am sure more people will start riding.

My only concern was: without this infrastructure, many are too afraid to put anything online. If we can lower that fear together, all tools (HIX, mod_harbour, PHP, …) will benefit.

Regards, Otto

Carles

Posts: 1283

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 02:34 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 05:42 PM

Otto,

In the test I use HIX and I used the hello.html file you put here. Though I can guess what you use, can you explain what you have to run hello.html?

Can you put an example here so users can try your system too?

This will enrich the users and they’ll know which horses they can ride... :D

C.

Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

UT Page -> https://carles9000.github.io/
Forum UT -> https://discord.gg/bq8a9yGMWh
HIX -> https://github.com/carles9000/hix

sysctrl2

Posts: 1144

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 07:15 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2025 07:00 PM

Cierto ! un manual de como hacerlo !

Cesar Cortes Cruz

SysCtrl Software

Mexico

' Sin +- FWH es mejor "

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2025 09:01 AM

Hello friends,
I’m genuinely interested in how all of you plan to release your web versions once they are ready.
Will you run them on self-hosted servers, or will you use hosting providers?
And if you choose hosting companies: how do you plan to keep a reliable connection to your existing desktop applications during a hybrid phase?
It would be very valuable to hear different approaches.

We often discuss frameworks and tools, but very few people here seem to run an actual secure public web server. Many understandably prefer not to reveal their domain, which makes it difficult to share examples or support each other.

That’s why I’m curious about your strategies for going public.

My own situation adds another layer:
I don’t deploy a single server — I deploy hundreds, for hotels, cafés, restaurants. That means I can’t work with one-off custom setups. I need a repeatable, secure installation routine, similar to our automated Windows Server deployments, where a full environment is up in about 30 minutes with proper logging and standards.

Installing a private web server is easy as long as the IP is not exposed.
But once a system becomes publicly reachable, you need a truly secure and well-documented environment.
That’s what I’m working on right now.

Best regards,
Otto

Carles

Posts: 1283

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 02:34 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2025 12:16 PM

Hi,

Alright, we'll just wait for you to explain how you run your web programs then, so we can figure it out...

Maybe we can do it another time.

C.

Salutacions, saludos, regards

"...programar es fácil, hacer programas es difícil..."

UT Page -> https://carles9000.github.io/
Forum UT -> https://discord.gg/bq8a9yGMWh
HIX -> https://github.com/carles9000/hix

Otto

Posts: 6983

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 07:07 PM

Re: Before the Web Ride: First Give Harbour Developers a Horse
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2025 03:13 PM

Hi Carles,

Sure — I’ll happily explain my setup. But the intention behind my question was not to teach anyone. It was simply to understand how others plan to deploy their web versions, so we can compare approaches and learn from each other.

This forum has many developers, but only a few seem to run real public-facing servers yet. Without knowing people’s deployment strategies, it’s hard to exchange meaningful examples, best practices, or security considerations.

I asked because different use cases require different solutions — some people run a single server, others run many, some use hosting providers, others self-host. Understanding that variety helps all of us.

I’m absolutely willing to share the details of my own system — including how I handle security, automation, hybrid desktop/web integration, and standardized deployments. But I was hoping others could also describe their plans so we get a broader picture.

Happy to continue the discussion whenever it’s convenient for everyone.

Best regards, Otto

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