FiveTech Support Forums

Antonio Mart,

The issue for me is connectivity. It must be seamless. My point was that I don't see that in Android at this time. Where is the client's data going to, and coming from ?

I see the same issue with Win 8 RT apps that are being developed right now. Most are games or news readers. However, I can interact with a server, and it can be on a desktop, or in the cloud, so I don't have to use tools to sync it up.

Right now I can write an app, put it on a corporate cloud server, and access it from a Windows Phone or Windows Tablet. No matter how small the app is, it needs to get the appropriate data to be meaningful.

Tim

A mi entender mi vi en la necesidad de hacer una aplicación para android
como un complemento de mi sistema de venta de loterías, y ha sido todo un
éxito, En solo 6 meses he vendido lo que vendía en 2 años, y todo eso solo
por el complemento de Android.

Ahora Daniel Garcia-Gil me desarrollo una aplicación para dataphones, como
un complemento adicional mas de aplicación de escritorio.

En conclusión hay que pensar muy seriamente en android como un complemento
a nuestras aplicaciones de escritorio.

Hola Pablo,

Pues eso es lo que yo estoy diciendo: las aplicaciones para dispositivos móviles (tablets, smartphones) son complementos en muchos casos OBLIGATORIOS. Marcan la diferencia, como tu has comentado, entre que la aplicacion escritorio quede anticuada o adquiera un nuevo valor. Los ejemplos son numerosísimos. Pensemos en una contabilidad, lo que se puede hacer en un movil: visualizacion de los ultimos movimientos de un extracto contable, estado de una cuenta, cobro de facturas, ranking de ventas o de compras... etc... todo eso incluso se puede ver en un smartphone.
A este "carro" hay que subirse si o si, igual que nos subimos al carro Windows en su epoca, porque las aplicaciones MSDOS tenían cerrado el mercado.

En todo esto Android va con mucha ventaja con respecto a Apple o a Microsoft. Android tiene una arquitectura muy abierta, dispositivos muy baratos, actualizaciones frecuentes y constantes innovaciones.
Poder hacer una aplicacion como propone Antonio L. sería para mi un éxito. Los prgs. se podrían encriptar, y sería el scripter el que los desencriptaría. La clave no sería capturada porque la podría decidir el desarrollador, aunque para mi no es vital. Colocar unos says, gets, buttons y grid en pantalla sería un avance impresionante.

Saludos

TimStone wrote:Antonio,

I have no interest in Android or Google. My clients need tablets for their business, and there is no cheap Android device for that ! I have a Win 8 Samsung tablet, and I can do anything on it that is professional ! Many people feel the same, and Microsoft is selling plenty of Surface tablets. Also, the manufacturers are building many convertible devices which are selling. They are part notebook, part tablet, running Windows 8 Pro !

Windows 8 has the most connected system out there. Use it the same way on your Desktop, Laptop, Tablet and Phone ... and it all works.

Which device will you program for on Android ? With Apple or Microsoft, your program will run on all of the models. With Android it might work on some but not others. You don't even have the same OS on all models.

I won't be wasting my time there.

Tim

This will be my last comment on this thread. I do business applications for real world businesses. I identify the exact needs ( not game stuff ), and spend my time providing complete solutions to meet those needs. I have a tablet version of my software that actually provides my clients with significant benefit, and it works with their primary computers. I do not see the "death of desktops" in business, and that is where I focus my time.

I use FW for Windows because it works very well with the OS. Some time was spent with FW for Mac, but that is mostly experimental. The same would be true for Android. Windows is NOT dead, and anyone who has actually invested in, and spent time with, Windows 8 products knows the benefit.

Yes, there are more Andoroid phones being sold, but that is a combination of ALL the models. Not one of those comes anywhere close to the sales of the iPhone ! Also, there is a lot of exchanging of Android phones. They are like a disposable toy. Spend time on the carrier's forums and you will see this. People by a Droid, find its weaknesses, sell it on eBay, and buy another. User satisfaction scores are not too great in every study I've seen, while the iPhone and Windows Phone have satisfaction results over 95 %. Also, most people have no clue what they want in a phone so they go to a store and its all Android being pushed. That is because there is more profit and better commissions. The sales people will actually try to discourage people from buying a Windows or iPhone. In fact, Verizon, our biggest provider, actually weakens the Windows Phone to make it less popular. I've used them all and the Windows Phone I love the most. It is the best organized phone out there and has won many awards.

You can switch over to the Android marketing model, but unless you have an amazing app, you won't make much money with it. You will just become one more app in a store that has way too much competition for you to stand out.

So, I've said enough. I'm just an old guy with a lot of experience, and I'll ride out my remaining years continuing on the way I've worked successfully in the past. You may not agree with me, but my software development has supported my family, put my kids through college, paid for weddings, and allowed me to be very comfortable for over 30 years.

Tim

Stefan

I agree that Android is important on the smartphone part , i personnaly have an Android phone, so does my wife and all my children. Again we are talking about a smartphone where you can "phone" , go to facebook , internet etc... we are not doing business with our phones at least not in the domains where most of us act. Just a remark Android is a set of packages not compatible most of them with each other. Try to download a game (or whatever else) you will see a lot of incompatibilites (work wirh Android v2 , but not Ice cream or jelly bean ......) , this can go quickly to a nightmare from a development point of view. We had issued some time ago a project with java, eclipse and other tools aiming android development and to be honest we abandoned. The main reasons, communication, printing etc....

Now about Tablets, Yes there are cheap Android tablets..... i am getting old but i remember early 80's , i purchased my first "personnal computer" an Amstrad... wow i was amazed, it was a fantastic toy. But when i thought about professional application, it was short , very short... no memory, storage etc.... Then the first pc computer appeared xt and a lot of "developpers" joined the "ms" world and developped a lot of applications. Why ? because it could communicate with all the rest of their applications in different ways. Then At .. etc
Today ANdroid tablets suffer the same comparaison, short in memory and storage and a mess in android versions...

We have a lot of demands of a tablet version connected to our software, we have started developping a "light" fwh tablet application based on metro panel under windows 8. We have asked many of the customers demanding tablets if they would buy a windows 8 tablet, that was not a problem. Windows 8 tablets are growing more and more, i am not talking about surface but all other tablets under windows 8 (hp, acer etc...) , prices are getting lower and lower. We can go quickly into this market , still need a lot of tuning to the "metro like" interface, if more users develop on it, we can have a great interface that can be a correct solution.

Now if "master" Antonio feels confortable in developping a fivedroid , i have no problem with that but i personnally will go to a windows 8 tablet anyway.

My 2 cents,

Richard

[ENGLISH, by trans]
Richard,

We also have a first prototype of a light app for Windows 8. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25706&p=143851&hilit=tablet # p143851
  Problems. a) There are few tablets with Windows 8. Of which there is no 3G connection. Also there are few models and there are more expensive than Android tablets. It is clear that manufacturers have rejected Windows 8 tablets. b) The user feels strange touch. He dragging the screen and then says "this does not work well": do the test yourself.
Conclusions: 1) for now we will change the screen to drag the user does not detect the difference, there will be no drag touch. 2) Windows 32 bit does not work or worked like a touch on the tablets and the user will result in rejection and anger.

Android is the leader in tablets and smartphones: clear. But are we willing to overlook this blunt fact? Topics to deny the evidence does not go missing but that is not going to produce more business opportunities.

regards

[SPANISH, native]
Richard,

Nosotros también tenemos un primer prototipo de una light aplicacion para Windows 8 . viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25706&p=143851&hilit=tablet#p143851
Problemas. a)Hay pocas tablets con Windows 8. De las que hay ninguna tiene conexion 3G. Además hay pocos modelos y los que hay son más caros que las tablets Android. Es claro que los fabricantes de tablets han rechazado Windows 8. b) El usuario siente que el tacto touch es extraño (arrastrando la pantalla) y enseguida dice "esto no funciona bien": haz tu mismo la prueba.
Conclusiones: 1) de momento vamos a cambiar el arrastre de pantalla para que el usuario no detecte la diferencia: no habra arrastre touch. 2) Windows 32 bits no funciona ni funcionara like a touch en las tablets y al usuario le produce rechazo y enojo.

Android es el jefe en las tablets y en los smartphones: está claro. Pero ¿ estamos nosotros dispuestos a obviar este contundente hecho ? Argumentos para negar la evidencia no van a faltar pero eso no nos va a producir más oportunidades de negocio.

Saludos

All of you have valid arguments.
For us I can see some validity to having Android capability. It does not necessarily have to be Fivewin but it seems that we should not disregard that market. We have users/truck drivers that need connectivity to our software. I cannot force all of them to conform/purchase microsoft phone or tablet in place of or in addition to phone they already have. Remember pagers and phones? Java may be necessary to cover most of the devices but we should keep an open mind and not discount the market because that is the only way we have done things. BYOD is getting more and more popular as devices are used for work and home use.

Gale,

I personally think phones are too small for business applications. I also do real estate and I reviewed everything on the market for phones. Its just not a good tool for business productivity.

A Win 8 Pro tablet can easily access a company's system. Our clients with ADS have internet connectivity available to the network. The tablet doesn't need a wireless connection. Today most smartphones ( all types ) can work as a hub for the tablet. So, if a driver has a tablet, he can access the internet through the phone ( wifi ) and connect to the server, and have the full "workstation" at his fingertips. This is not in the future. We can do it today with the devices and tools we have available. In fact, we do !

Also, my FWH based product is fully touch enabled on my WIn 8 tablet. I have had no issues whatsoever. There is very little typing needed because of how the program is setup.

As for availability, right now the Microsoft Store has 14 different tablets on sale, from 7 different manufacturers. I like the Samsung ATIV Smart PC 500T Tablet which comes with a hard case and keyboard making it a netbook or tablet ... with an 11.6" screen and far more readable ... at $649. For anyone in business who is used to buying computers, that's pretty attractive.

Tim

Richard, Tim, Antonio,

The idea that I have in mind is to build the same app for Windows tablets, Android and iOS. A simple app that takes Harbour code and runs it and has access to an easy coding GUI (FiveWin style).

In other words, my idea is that many of you don't have to suffer Android, iOS and WinRT development tools because they are like monsters... You simply focus on easy PRGs and get your simple app done. No need to suffer the market acceptance process, etc. Simply install FiveApp (or whatever name) and get your apps running from it. Set a password so your user can't modify your sources, neither they will work on other devices

Antonio,

That is a nice idea, but it takes a LOT of time. You are competing against teams of thousands of developers.

Frankly, if I had my choice, and you were going to divert your time, I would suggest it be to creating a cloud based system where we could store and retrieve our data. If my databases were in the cloud then I could access them from a wide variety of locations. If you look at all of the new applications being developed today, they are moving to cloud based servers. Then the devices simply retrieve, review, and post the data to those servers rather than local drives.

Where else could a windows product go ? How about social networking. It would be nice to post to social networks from within an application. We really do need enhancements to our email systems. Even with CDO there are still limitations. It would be great if we actually could interact with a remote email server completely within our programs. That would be a big boost working with businesses.

I'm not real concerned with RT apps. If you actually follow where Microsoft is going, the RT apps are simply utilities for popular tasks. Windows 8.1 will have "boot to desktop" enabled and the Start button will be back ( confirmed ). There was never an intention to have RT be the place to run full business apps. In fact, their LightSwitch programming software builds cloud, and desktop apps simply, but no RT. The desktop is not going away. Microsoft just did what Apple has not ( yet ) done ... blend the phone, tablet, and PC in one overall OS.

The specs on 8.1 were released to developers today. No way is Microsoft / Windows fading away !

Tim

Tim,
Here is my scenario. A dispatcher needs a driver to pick up an empty 40' container at the local container yard and drop it at the customer warehouse to load.
Now the dispatcher sends message to driver phone. Driver picks up container and enters the container number into phone and sends data to our dispatch system noting the container number, date, and time picked up. Then he sends updates to system showing he dropped off.

There are many other mobile communication functions that could be accomplished with drivers, customers, and other users. Text messages do not work properly for this automated back and forth. Emails have drawbacks also. Data integrity requires some program control.
Cloud will work but you still need to control access and provide data validation and control.

Thanks for your time. This can be done with other methods so I don't want to change anyone's priorities just for me. I am just one point of view in a sea of different views.

Gale,

I understand that scenario and it is quite simple.

Case 1: Now consider the service center. A service tech is dispatched to a location to repair a vehicle. He looks at his tablet, sees the workorder, even has a map with directions, and he has the customer info with him. He gets on the site, looks at the service history for the vehicle, performs the repair, creates the ticket, PDFs it to the client's email, processes the payment and proceeds to his next destination. He's done everything live on the system, so the ticket is already in the main computer database, and the service history is already updated. A supervisor at the shop reviews the ticket, and then closes it.

Case 2: A customer arrives at a service center. The service writer grabs a tablet, goes out to the vehicle, starts a ticket, discusses the repairs desired, and adds all the info to the ticket on his device. It can be pretty comprehensive. He can also review that vehicle's service history while standing next to the car. He sends the customer to the counter where the ticket has come off the printer, he signs the estimate, and is on his way.

These are just two situations that can be done right now with my software and a Win 8 Pro compatible tablet ... and the price tag can start in the $ 500 range for the device ( with an 11.6 " screen ).

Tim

Antonio

It is a great idea , if you feel you can do it, go ahead.

It is a good opportunity to bring new customers to fivetech also.

I have tested a "universal" solution "appcelerator" that promised same code for android and ios and finally it was not as universal as they claimed especially for Android....

Ps : How do you plan to handle harbour and java ? java is the key for android and ios

Richard